Dr. Bob Rice of First Presbyterian Church in Norman, OK, thinks he has the answer for churches that want their people to think alike on things: It will never happen.
He’s talking about another church in his denomination recently pulling out of the group because of the PCUSAs stand on homosexuality. Here’s part of an article that tell’s Dr. Rice’s solution:
The Rev. Dr. Bob Rice, senior pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Norman for 15 years, said he understands why First Presbyterian Church of Edmond chose to leave the denomination, but believes the problem is a lack of appreciation of diversity, and it won’t be solved by changing affiliation.
“I do think that [the members of First Presbyterian of Edmond] believe they can find a church where everybody thinks the same way. They don’t feel they can live with a church where gays and lesbians, for example, are allowed to fully participate in the life of the church, where we have a broad spectrum of people in the church in terms of their belief about who Jesus is…but my sense is if you think you’re going to find a church where everybody thinks alike, you’re never going to do it, because there never has been a church like that and there never will be,” Rice said.
Rice believes his denomination’s increasing polarization is a reflection of society’s increasing polarization. He thinks emphasizing mere tolerance is not enough. “I believe we should be tolerant, but I think the issue is more than that — it’s the ability to respect the otherness of the other, and to begin to celebrate some of our differences and to recognize them as God’s gift.”
Many churches are facing a crisis. They are torn between adapting their tenets to accommodate modern cultural developments and appeal to young people, and reacting against change in accordance with the wishes of their older members. But if these churches want to remain an influential and relevant part of peoples’ lives in the future, they must let go of their pet bigotries and narrow-minded theology. If churches do disregard bigotry, they will have the chance to be a source of unity and reconciliation instead of division.
I understand Dr. Rice’s rationale to a point. But he’s swung that position way too far out of whack in my opinion.
When things come down to carpet color, or worship style, I think his logic may work well.
But on matters of theology… not so much.
Celebrating diversity and openness in the case above causes many (me included) to give up what I think scripture says about an issue. That is something that we should not be willing to do.
How we treat people as a result of our theological understanding is a different story… but to just throw our theology out the window for diversity’s sake, or because the church ‘will never be perfect’ is just silly.
What do YOU think?
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Having left the PCUSA, I heard arguments like the one put forward by the Rev. Dr. But it is a false argument. As Todd points out, no one is saying diversity is bad or we’re going to find a perfect church or in a church everybody should agree on everything. But when it comes down to the essentials, that’s a different story.
“Celebrating diversity and openness in the case above causes many (me included) to give up what I think scripture says about an issue.” Todd, this very statement reflects the point expressed by the above pastor. Are we willing separate ourselves from one another based on what “I THINK” scripture says? What people have “thought” scripture says has changed dramatically over the past 2000 years.
The situation with the Presbyterians is an example. I asked a friend of mine why those that are unhappy with the decisions of the PCUSA don’t just move to the PCA. Well, it turns out that some in the PCUSA who disagree with PCUSA’s decisions on homosexuality don’t agree with the PCA regarding women in ministry so there becomes a necessity for a new Presbyterian denomination. Now, for us church insiders, this is just par for the course. The unchurched, however, look at us and think we are nuts – and the Gospel is smudged and obscured.
I had the awesome privilege of sitting at the feet of Eugene Peterson for two days last year. When asked about the issue, this pastor’s pastor replied, “Wed on’t have the right to split the church over something that could be part of God’s work.”
Jason, there is nothing in scripture directing us to celebrate diversity. We are ‘commanded’ to love one another but celebrating diversity is not a Biblical concept and that is not my opinion. I challenge you to present your Bible supports for this humanistic idea. You will never have a congregation where everyone is on the same page and there is scriptural evidence for this in the epistles. Those letters are problem solving and doctrine clarifying (among other things) and they prove that the early congregations got off the rails from time to time. But they also prove that the Apostles were convinced that there were some specific rails to be on. God is not schizophrenic so rather than ‘giving up’ on what I think one passage or another of His thinking means we should continue to read that book until we know God enough to understand Him on tricky topics.
Another thing: quit reading the doctrinal dissertations of the theological lights of this generation. If you cannot begin to harmonize your thinking with God’s then it is probably because the authority figure(s) that you have submitted your brain to (your favorite Christian authors) are not on God’s wavelength even though you and everyone around says they are and this is obscuring your ability to hear Gods still small voice. I am not for heading off to start another ‘ism’ because of differences in understanding because I am the only one I have ever found that thinks exactly like me and often the yesterday me and the tomorrow me don’t think alike so my ultimate ‘ism’ would have exactly one person. God did not call us to any denomination or ‘ism’. He called us to Love, and in the midst of the drama and excitement that sometimes is church we are constantly being tested on that subject.
Steve, I am happy that your absolute confidence in how you choose to read scripture provides a sense of security for you and that your thinking is harmonized with God’s.
The key seems to me to be to define “celebrating diversity” As I see it for a congregation to have a clear position on what they believe scripture says is essential. It follows that the assignment of teaching and leadership responsibilities should reflect those convictions. If ensuring that is the case means sacrificing the “celebration of diversity” than so be it, in my opinion.
However it is also important that our church families should be secure enough about their doctrinal positions to welcome dialogue within and without about those positions. If that is “celebrating diversity” then I for one am all for it
Didn’t say anything like that Jason. A careful read discloses that my thinking on many things is still wet cement. What I am convinced of is this: Whatever God tells us in scripture He intends for us to understand; and God is not a God of multiple interpretations. There is a right way to understand scripture but because we are like little kiddies to God we will experience difficulties from time to time about some of the things we find in the Bible. We can either say , as you have that, “Celebrating diversity and openness in the case above causes many (me included) to give up what I think scripture says about an issue” and ‘give up’ on scripture, or we can conclude that although scripture is entirely reliable my thinking on it may lack enough context (I don’t know it well enough to feel comfortable with what others tell me it means). We live in an age when everyone is writing a book about their take on this or that passage and often the Bible is the last thing consulted and then only to confirm the proof texts of the author (but not to challenge the authors basic premise). I am for making the Bible the prime research tool for understanding the mind of God and then testing my thinking in iron sharpening iron discussions with others. So actually I am confident in my learning method but I also acknowledge my need to continue to read and think on God’s words and this will produce changes in my thinking from day to day. The object is not for me to think like you or you to think like me but for us to think more and more like God. If Love is the premise and having the mind of God is the object of our efforts then we cannot help but to grow nearer and nearer to one another. This would explain why I am cautious about the writings of others. What may look like a shortcut may actually be an indoctrination in to some things that don’t exactly explain God’s thinking right. God wants to be our teacher. Isaiah 2:3 (and other passages) reveal God to be a teacher. “And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” That is all that I was sayin’. If you see celebrating diversity as something expressed by inspiration I am all ears. My understanding is that loving one another is the superior concept because there are clearly some diversities in the world that are not worthy of celebration. Everyone is to be loved but not everything is to be loved.