Ted Haggard: Gay marriage should be legal (even though it's not biblical)

From the Christian Post:

“We’ve reached a point where human dignity and mutual respect is so important,” Haggard said in a recent online debate with Rabbi Benjamin Hecht, director of Orthodox Jewish think tank Nishma.

Responding to the question, “Should same-sex marriage be allowed by the state?” he went on to say, “If someone is dealing with same-sex attraction or homosexuality, and they want someone to be their life partner of the same gender, though we would oppose that in our churches, it should be allowed by the state.”

So… what do YOU think… is Haggard right or wrong on this?

Do you generally think that all things non-biblical should be illegal?  Isn’t that the question he’s trying to raise here?

Would love to hear your comments.

Todd

More here…

19 Comments

  • ryan November 5, 2012 Reply

    It’s a great statement and I’m glad to hear it from an evangelical voice. Unfortunately, I’m not sure that he’s the right source to be taken seriously given his recent history… or maybe that makes him *more* valid (??)

  • Eric Frisch November 5, 2012 Reply

    Like Ryan, I’m not sure that he has a ton of credibility on this issue. That said, I completely agree with him. I will defend the right of any church not to perform/recognize gay marriages in their church, but approaching it strictly as a state issue, I see no reason whatsoever why it shouldn’t be legal. This is why we have a separation of church and state.

  • Rebel Saint November 5, 2012 Reply

    This is getting tedious now.

    We are not opposed to SSM because it’s “non-Biblical”. Fornication is non-Biblical but not illegal. Dishonouring your parents is non-Biblical but not illegal.

    Marriage isn’t the preserve of Biblical christianity. It is, and has been, practiced by every culture & creed since time immemorial. And whilst it may have taken different forms across those cultures & creeds the thing that has remained constant is it’s primary purpose of providing the environment where procreation takes place and the next generation are raised, nurtured & socialised. That is the reason the state has always had a stake in it, because of it’s importance to the next generation; because marriage produces the best (and cheapest) environment in which to raise the next generation of productive citizens.

    Ted has fallen into the trap of thinking that since marriage consists of love & commitment, every relationship that contains love & commitment can be a marriage.

  • shawnwilson November 5, 2012 Reply

    I agree. You cannot legislate morality. It doesn’t work and it’s not the job of the government. America’s law of the land is the Constitution not the Bible. While that may sound heretical it’s a fact. If the church doesn’t like homosexuality than they should present their case and allow the chips to fall where they may. Work toward open discussion not imposing our will and agenda on people. That won’t bring them to Christ, it will only push them away.

    • Don Jones November 6, 2012 Reply

      When government says that it is wrong to kill, steal, slander, libel, etc, they are legislating morality. The Constitution was based on Judea Christian values.

  • Steve Miller November 5, 2012 Reply

    I believe the government’s job is to promote a civil and stable environment for its citizens to live within. Legality should not be confused with morality; sometimes they run parallel to one another and sometimes they conflict. Morality tends to align well with what allows people to flourish as a society. The state should not prevent gay marriage for religious reasons, but it should most definitely deny gay marriage for civil and social reasons.

  • Paul November 5, 2012 Reply

    It’s shocking to me that Christians will say that it doesn’t matter if a law is immoral. So killing of missionaries in Islamic countries is fine?…as long as its legal in those countries?

    The problem with legalising gay marriage is that God’s wrath is going to be poured on the land. We scoff at God’s rule…even as Christians. That’s sad.

    • Steve Millers November 6, 2012 Reply

      Please do not confuse my statement on the role of government with saying if a law is immoral it doesn’t matter. The government is to be run by the people, a Christian people will work to create a moral government. Morality is not created by the government.

  • JB November 5, 2012 Reply

    My first thought: who in the world would listen to Ted Haggard on any issue? Secondly, I think Paul has explained the postion very well. If the church separates issues of morality and social/civil government, then what voice does the church have? Is the church not to seek after God’s righteousness? Is the church to be salt and light? When we give in to social expediency, the society is molding the church in its image, and not the other way around.

  • Marty November 6, 2012 Reply

    Should incest be legal? Should a man be allowed to marry a young girl(or boy)? Why would we separate morality from legality?

  • John Newsome November 6, 2012 Reply

    This is a tough question, but in response to Shawn Wilson all laws reflect someone’s morality. In essence the government says that it is wrong and illegal to damage a person’s property and that it is wrong or illegal to sexually abuse someone, et cetera. The question is whose morality should inform the public sector. Do we believe that God gave us His laws arbitrarily or is these a reason for them such as living a better life, promoting public welfare, and preserving the institution of the family? I am afraid that we are retreating from these issues because some Christians have been so hateful as well as embarrassingly ignorant. Plus, many of us have been bullied by extremists that label those with differing views as hateful, homophobic, and out of touch. The Church is called to be salt and light in a world that is corrupt and in darkness.

  • Pastor Chris November 6, 2012 Reply

    In a religiously neutral government, a law forbidding someone’s freedom has to show that that activity is actually harmful, not just that some, or even many consider it immoral. Almost everyone considers killing adults to be actively harmful, so it is against the law. Most people in the US no longer think homosexual relationships are harmful. People can still consider them immoral, of course, and abstain.

  • Cort Bendee November 6, 2012 Reply

    Since the biblical words are, “Render to Caesar that which is his and unto God what is God’s…” The case for separation of church and state has been made. Christian values can be lived. Hi-jacking the government in what is a pluralistic society isn’t biblical. Marriage is biblical. Marriage is also civil in order to collect taxes and to create legal succession. Legalizing gay marriage is a good way to increase the tax base. I support Ted Haggard and Ryan.

  • Maverick November 6, 2012 Reply

    re: the comment that morality cannot be legislated – and that it never works:

    That’s an old cliche that’s floated around long enough w/out challenge.

    The most basic definition of “law” is codified morality.

    Virtually every law expresses morality. Some are more explicit, others reflect morality of an underlying tenet.

    The question has never been one of WHETHER we legislate morality, but WHOSE morality.

    A more basic question is how does a Judeo-Christian morality find expression as it loses its dominate sway over a given culture and increasingly participates as one of several conflicting voices seeking to shape the common and accepted moral stances in the momentary and evolving experience of “cultural norms”.

  • Dean November 6, 2012 Reply

    The 10 Commandments were not suggestions. The BIBLE is our “Owner’s Manual” Our country is “One Nation under GOD! A handful of people said it was ok to kill “murder” unborn babies… it was an outrage then, but the church did nothing. It was a handful of people that got prayer taken out of schools and the church did nothing… It is time for the Church to stand up and say “enough is enough” Bottom line in any situation is what does the BIBLE say? “If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them . . . . If a man mates with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. If a woman approaches any animal and mates with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood is upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13, 15-16) Can you see what’s next if we continue to lower or morals?

  • Pastor Gary November 6, 2012 Reply

    I could be missing something here I suppose but isn’t sin sin no matter if it’s church or state. If God’s word says it’s sin, case closed.

  • R Horn November 6, 2012 Reply

    I think we need to remind ourselves that far as i can recall nearly every Emperor of the Roman Empire was involved in some sort of homosexuality but the early church wasn’t affected by the morals or lack of morals by the ruling Govt of the day even though it wasn’t a democracy. They just went about sharing the Gospel healing the sick, casting out demons, ministering to the poor. The church flourished in a pagan society. The church will thrive in America regardless what laws the Govt passes or don’t pass. We just need to be ready to give our testimony in season and out of season what we believe and what we value and what we regard as sin without heaping condemnation on people. As someone once said. if are that strong against something instead of attacking them and protesting, just witness to them to them about the love of Jesus and lead them to him.

  • Don Jones November 6, 2012 Reply

    If we want to redefine marriage, where does it end up? Polygamists could/do use the same argument as gay marriage and if the criteria is loving each other, then they should have the same right. What about “incest between consenting adults?” Same argument. What about someone who wants to marry his/her pet? Then what really is marriage?

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