I wish there was a button for that. Actually, I don’t, but there are some brothers reading this who do…
The Bible tells us to test the spirits Todd. That doesn’t mean we don’t do it in love but it is necessary. Yes, there are a lot of hateful things being said but, no, not all of them are. There are very, very, legitimate concerns that need to be addressed and not with only T.D. Jakes. Truth certainly and thankfully isn’t only measured by concensus but I think a number of good points are raised here:
See the 100 some comments are Frank Turks entry.
And certainly on other blogs regarding ER2. That being said I think there was some very, very, good moments and I won’t throw the baby out with the bathwater as it were but let’s do this with a discerning heart and be critical in love and not hate.
Absolutely, Ty. I was in the room LIVE at ER2.
When you have Mark Driscoll telling TD Jakes “I have no further questions”, I think it should make some people take a second look.
You said “There are very, very, legitimate concerns that need to be addressed and not with only T.D. Jakes.”
THAT’S WHAT ER2 WAS ALL ABOUT.
The concerns were talked about; addressed; and answered.
So… all I’m saying… is hold your continued judgment of Bishop Jakes until you watch and have the opportunity to discern.
Don’t just read Frank Turk’s blog.
Did they talk about the real elephant in the room, or did they continue to ignore the issue of women NOT being invited to the Elephant room? Did they continue to be above discussing women in leadership? Did they continue the No Girls Allowed pissing contest?
can you pisseth on the wall?
Nice setup fo the postured “I was there and you weren’t” so don’t judge man!
I did not attend ER2 Todd. You got me there. However, there are people that did and are wary of the same things. Trevin Wax for example. It’s not in my heart to judge T.D. Jakes Todd, Lord knows I have enough of my own problems. But, before we start fist bumping and giving the group hug, for me at least, it seems wise step back and consider what was said and evaluate things. I’m sorry you don’t share that opinion.
Not a problem here, Ty.
I’m just a little tired of people complaining beforehand that the conversation shouldn’t have even ever taken place; then not watching or listening to the forum and complaining that it wasn’t adequate because of reading other bloggers.
See how silly that sounds.
Some will rally all day long that TD Jakes is a modalist and a heretic.
To what avail?
Now the attack is on Mark Driscoll AND TD Jakes.
There is so much more to be gained by congenial discussion of the issues.
Doesn’t mean that TD Jakes will be preaching at Mars Hill anytime soon. But that’s not the point.
We just have to be very careful when we point fingers at people and saying that they’re not in the Kingdom. Especially, as Jakes did this week, affirm every single thing that we proclaim the gospel to be about.
In the end… it really didn’t matter what Bishop Jakes said… from many people there will always be a “BUT”…
I encourage you to watch the ER2 conversation. THEN if you disagree, disagree. But in a way that is respectful and civil. Man, I’d expect that from even a non-believer.
‘ Now the attack is on Mark Driscoll AND TD Jakes ‘
Don’t forget James MacDonald.
Todd, I think the entire conference could said in this photo which was on the ER2 twitter feed and consequently what James used on his blog post: Sorry, for the length of the link:
Aside from even my disagreement, this photo literally moved me to tears. And in the Spirit of our Lord I would stand or kneel with any of the men there and lot God do the work. To me first.
Let God do the work. Sorry.
I’m coming from the reformed perspective. The whole thing is tiring. We should be talking about Jesus but all I ever hear out of people today is “My” church/pastor. The target is creating a stir, self promotion, mass marketing, read my blog,follow my tweets, buy my book,come to my conference etc. For every Mark Driscoll or Steven Furtick there are hundreds if not thousands clamoring to be “next” and let’s be honest…. in this viral age that opportunity seems tantalizingly close.
There’s ever more for us to sift through and what should be so simple is becoming more and more complex. The bottom line is the Church needs to be led by humble men instead it seems that the pattern is trending towards talent/charisma.
Preach it brother!
Wow, totally agree. Well said.
Well said Jud! But be careful, that might come accross as hate.
I come the Reformed perspective too. I am thankful Calvin was in dialogue with many Pastor’s publicaly and confronting them to their faces and via their version of blogs, and Facebook called letters, of which I enjoy reading. I am also thankful that he published a bunch of books, sermons and articles that I read. God is sovereign and he raises up really big names every once in a while to advance His name. I really enjoy the blogs, elephants and tweets!
Real conversation didn’t happen at the Elephant Room 2 and the “Elephant in the room” was carefully avoided and not discussed. Furthermore, the men who have substantive Biblical concerns about the event were not represented, and in my case, despite paying to attend one of the multi-site venues I was ordered to leave and threatened with arrest for trespassing if I stayed.
You can’t convince me the ER2 was about open and honest confrontation and conversation. That description was a marketing blurb that doesn’t truthfully state what the event was really about.
Oh and BTW, I don’t live in my mom’s basement.
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